Ben Folds: Judge on The Sing-Off, Season 3

Ben Folds said it plainly: "I think Simon Cowell is great. He's a bit of a genius. When you look at 21st Century popular music history, he'll be a v…" — and Premier Guide Miami was in the room when it happened.

The Sing-Off scours the country in search of the best a cappella groups, and Season 3 expanded the competition to 16 groups performing popular songs in a weekly competition culminating with a live finale. The grand prize: a Sony Music recording contract and $200,000. Celebrity judges Ben Folds (Ben Folds Five), Shawn Stockman (Boyz II Men), and Sara Bareilles critique the groups using their musical expertise. The Sing-Off airs Mondays on NBC. Ben Folds spoke with Premier Guide Miami's Daedrian McNaughton.

PREMIER GUIDE MIAMI: Have you had a chance to see Glee or the other talent shows?

BEN FOLDS: I haven't seen Glee yet. I saw about a five-minute clip of American Idol because people kept asking about Simon Cowell, so I wanted to see what he did. And I will watch Glee. I'm not proud of being ignorant. I just don't really stop to watch TV — it's not something I normally do. But I'll get to it.

PREMIER GUIDE MIAMI: And what are your thoughts on Simon?

BEN FOLDS: I think he's great. He's a bit of a genius. When you look at 21st Century popular music history, he'll be a very important part of how the music industry — the filters of the music industry, how people hear music and how it's integrated into the rest of the popular culture — he's got a whole chapter. This world that he's created is not what we really do. We live in the form. But that form has probably gone back to the Gong Show and Star Search and Eurovision. It's been done before, but the current form — I think he partially invented that. But we're really very different because the show itself, the heart of the show, is about harmony. We might have a lot in common with Glee. I haven't seen it yet. I know that people singing together has become more and more popular over the 20th Century until now it's really reaching a boil. There were a cappella groups in universities in small numbers at the turn of the century, and by the end there were six, eight groups in every university. That's a lot of students singing on all their own motivation. And so some of these shows are just springing out of a cultural versioning of vocal music. And if you think about it, it's very timely — because we're not going to be able to afford instruments pretty soon if the economy keeps going that way, and you can always afford your voice.

PREMIER GUIDE MIAMI: What was your initial reaction when you were first asked to do the show?

BEN FOLDS: When they first asked me I told my manager no. But it hadn't run yet, so I didn't know much about the show. I just thought, I don't want to be a judge. But what convinced me to do it was that it was a cappella and that it was unique and could be very musical. And I just worked with some a cappella groups. I've never been in an a cappella group myself but I thought, this is something I regularly do anyway — I listen to music and I have an opinion about it and I know the inside of music, so I can talk about it a little bit. It turned out to be a really good decision. I've really enjoyed it.

PREMIER GUIDE MIAMI: How difficult is it for you to judge these talented groups?

BEN FOLDS: It is more of a range this year than the last two years and that does make it hard. If you have an amazing German polka group and they're up against an amazing industrial noise group, you should take personal preferences aside — which I think we've done — and just really try to hone in on what they're attempting to do, how effective it is to the people, what it is that they do, and could this make a record. I don't like all records but a record is a record. And so it is really hard because you try not to make it personal. You try to make it about how they're working together, how well they're doing, and how effective it might be for their audience, and leave the preference to the apple or the orange out of it. But it's difficult to do. But I feel like we're doing it.

PREMIER GUIDE MIAMI: What are you really looking for in these singers?

BEN FOLDS: Like any other kind of music in some ways — you just go, well, is this moving me or is it not moving me? Then the next question is, if it is or if it isn't, why? Then it's our job — because we supposedly know music — to ask why would that be? It could be so many things, but there are rules. You start with pitch and time, and then you can move into things about their arrangement. Is there a whole stack of parallel thirds? Is the bass one thin? Is it well arranged, is the voice leading working? All that stuff. But when it comes to why a cappella works as an art form, one thing that occurs to me is that if I were sitting through two hours a night of different instrumental groups, I would be tired. But I can listen to two hours of different groups and really feel moved the whole time. There's something about all voices that almost hits a primal. I'm sure they could have electrodes to the audience's head and there would be something that lights up uniquely for people singing together. Every time they start singing I kind of get a chill. There's something about that kind of music, about singing, that's just really essential, and so it just works.

PREMIER GUIDE MIAMI: Why do you think the show has been selected for more than a limited series and been such a success?

BEN FOLDS: I think the show is successful because there is a lot of talent on it. The singers — even the ones that go home early in the seasons — they're really talented and really dedicated and they're all singing together really well. It makes people feel really good to see people working together. That's been my main theory about this show — you can tune into television everywhere else and see people not getting along or people not working together well. The show doesn't have to be artfully put together, but there really is a lot of art and craft in it. It's sort of counter to what we're told about our culture now, that everything is dumbed down, that everything is all reality shows and off the cuff and just dumb. If you look at groups — sometimes high school kids — and they're doing this amazing thing, you think, oh, it's going to be okay. And that's what you get for a couple hours of Sing-Off. Then you can go back to kicking each other's asses, and that's fine too. But for a couple hours it's nice to see some harmony, and I think that's what this show provides.

PREMIER GUIDE MIAMI: What do you think the biggest challenge for an a cappella group is when they are looking for material to perform on the show?

BEN FOLDS: It's different for every group. What's interesting about it is the story behind every group. If you have an obvious challenge being surmounted really effectively — like an all-female group — you don't have a bass. So if you're an all-female group, you've got to find ways of making it work, and there are plenty of ways but you have to find them. They're off the beaten path. And if you're a group of 18 guys, then you might have intimacy issues. It might be difficult to find a star, a one-person that can act in the middle of essentially a football team. Some people might be technically challenged but have just total star power. So I think for each group it's how they surmount their challenge and their difficulties. Sometimes you keep a group in because you can see that they're on the verge of a revelation. They may not have done their best show but we make the judgment that if they stay on another week we're going to see something that's going to develop and surprise us, and that is what I think is most exciting about the show.

PREMIER GUIDE MIAMI: Why is this season more important or different from the rest?

BEN FOLDS: I think this is the season of innovation. As it evolves, everyone will see the innovation become second nature — in other words, you begin to take it for granted and everyone will look for heart. But I think that's what marks this season, and my theory is because these groups watched this television show and they thought, what can I do to stand out? And so we have a lot of standout groups. The first season was much more conventional a cappella and they were very good. Second season, more of that. And now all of a sudden it's more about how they can stand out and be different, and that's a nice thing to see.

PREMIER GUIDE MIAMI: Do you rehearse for this gig and how do you prepare? What is your ritual before the show?

BEN FOLDS: Yes, I look in the mirror and I tell myself, "You can." I drink three protein shakes and I run around the block. I try to get my endorphins up. Really what I do is before the show we have our little sit-down and listen to the songs that the groups are going to be singing. Now, we don't listen to their versions — we listen to the original versions. And we know who is going to be singing what. And then we all probably take some mental notes of what we might expect to happen, and that provides some framework. So if the group comes up and completely surprises you, then you had what you expected and then what they did, and that gives me a range of what to do. It also reminds me where the group has come since the week before, which is really important to me. Like last week they did this — are they going to be stagnant every week and give you more of the same, or is something going to happen? Because there's nothing better on the show than seeing a group develop. From a personal point of view, to think that you might have helped them in their learning and their development is a great feeling, probably like what it feels like to be a good teacher. And then as an audience member, it's just a wonderful surprise to see someone grow.

PREMIER GUIDE MIAMI: Will you be collaborating with Sara Bareilles?

BEN FOLDS: Let's do it. We were going to do that anyway before Sara got the call for Sing-Off.

PREMIER GUIDE MIAMI: What impact do you think Sing-Off has on school groups?

BEN FOLDS: If you're a professional musician or if you're a musician, especially the era that I grew up in, we were lucky enough to have music programs. And I've got kids now and I can see that it's been slashed. The way I got into this show was doing an a cappella record with university a cappella groups, and the money went to music education charities. What I think is great about the show — I can't tell you about a specific effect it might have had — but what you're seeing is that despite the cut, the de-emphasis of music in schools, you're seeing an increased number of kids getting together on their own dime, on their own time, with absolutely no class credit in universities. It's becoming a big social thing, but it's more than just a social occasion. They're having to learn harmony and voice leading, and by the time they put themselves through this they really know the insides of harmony. In some ways it's like studying Bach fugues because every person has to be really aware of what their specific voice leading is. So it's a lot of music education. I feel like it's part of a movement — our culture saying, actually, music is very important and we're going to do it even if it's not in the school system. And I think that's all we really know at this moment.

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